Curse

TheRaven · Jun 23, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your tactics. Pinging an "acceptable" build and then switching to something you like is just childish IMO and part of the problem that give PUGS a bad reputation.

I'm not saying that your preferred build is bad. Maybe it is bad or maybe it's way better than the usual cookie cutter, but I think your team leader should make the call. If you don't want to run the build that the leader suggests then argue your point with him. Explain why your version is better. If he insists on the cookie cutter that you hate then either run the cookie cutter or leave and find another team.

I went on a point farming run yesterday (Vanquish magus stones). I joined and pinged an Ursan build. A necro joined soon afterwards and pinged this:
[skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Volley[/skill][skill]Enfeeble[/skill][skill]Comfort Animal[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Did I mention he was a Necro? I suggested that he switch to Ursan but he insisted that his MM build was better than Ursan (that's a mm build???). The leader asked him to change his build and he pinged an Ursan build. Once we left town though we noticed that he had switched back. He thought his build was the best build ever!!! A flesh golem and a pet!!! Awesome! They can do all the tanking for him!

Cookie cutter builds are usually cookie cutter for a reason. They are the best builds for the job. Sure they may be boring to play and I can't comment on the HB monk build since I've never played a monk. If your build is better then explain why and educate the rest of the team. If the rest of the team says your build sucks then perhaps it does.

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

^
That build has D-Shot though.

Shadow Slave · Jun 23, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Divine Spirit (+ Selfless Spirit if you have the room) > GoLE if your bar is mainly 5e Skills...

On topic - I dont think I have ever had to change my build for a pug

(That being said I have also never monked for an Ursan team)

...Edit: See TheRaven's post for why I dont think I have ever had to change for a Pug

Educate them or leave them seems a good policy

Nessar · Jun 23, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Even if I do change my build for my monk, I ping it and I get no complaints.
So..I've never really had a problem with builds...

luwe80 · Jun 23, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

The sad/funny thing is most of them don't even play Monks so they don't know if your bar is good or not. They just know it's not what they're used to.
I don't know how you monks keep monking. I only know the Ele proffesion inside and out and that's the only bars I do comment on.

tormtk · Jun 23, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Well when I pug I ping my build and look over the others in my party. If you dont do this you could end up with one crappy player and ruin what your doing. However, people watch this practice, then ask others to do it but don't know anything better than the builds on wiki. So if you do high end areas and know your class well you should ping the build you are using and if they kick you for it, who cares. If they kick a player who uses a better build than the cookie cutter version you can probably find a better party anyway.

theonetheonlybruce · Jun 23, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

when i do doa runs ursan way i like run this [build=OwUT04nBXquaj43Z6LHcTLIQmA] over hb and as a 3rd monk with 2 other hb its actually very good but one day i got bitch out so i told them RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you left got a new group started and had no problem btw this build works great u just spam lod all day

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Divine Spirit (+ Selfless Spirit if you have the room) > GoLE if your bar is mainly 5e Skills...

On topic - I dont think I have ever had to change my build for a pug

(That being said I have also never monked for an Ursan team)

If your bar is composed of 5 energy skills, you shouldn't really need the energy management skills.

As for things like Heal Party, GoLE allows this skill to be squeezed out alot, especially when the usage of this skill is needed often. Strong energy management is mandatory in HB / Heal Party builds, because there are times when you need to excessively use this skill.

Gun Pierson · Jun 23, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Yeah I sometimes switch builds too, but all within reason and I know what I'm doing. In DoA and UW, key skills like 'healer's boon', 'Seed of life', 'heal party', 'Gole' will remain on my bar, but I might play around a bit with the other skill slots to prevent things from getting boring.

In general I have no problem at all to adjust my bar to a specific strat.

Akaraxle · Jun 23, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Save the wiki HB bar, save your build; if they ask you to ping, load the HB bar and show them, then reload your own build. Most people are so dumb (and busy with their 1-2-3 buttonmashing) that they won't notice as long as they get heals.

Pleikki · Jun 23, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

No.
My heroes don't tell me what build I should run.

For me they do :/ they allwyas want me to use echo mending with frenzy healsig

Lest121 · Jun 23, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I hate when someone ask me to change my Build...........Yesterday I went Evil monk on a bunch of Pugs, I changed it and didn't heal just sat there and watch them die at the First group..........the other monk sucked because I could have kept the whole team alive I have been on runs where one monk left and I kept everyone alive............most of the time I quit when someone ask me to change my build, but the pugs this weekend pissed me off so I had my fun with one group.

Celebrian · Jun 23, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

The changes you made to the build are very minor, so minor that i find it ridiculous to call it your own style. The fact that the "mindless" ursans dont even notice only proves this as it simply shows that theres no difference in the abilities of the 2 builds.
So you take spotless mind, what does this actually do for you in a doa run when everyone is hexed up to the core anyway? Is there really that much difference in the abilities of energy management with divine spirit and GoLE anyway?
Not only this but from personal experience the only hex that becomes mildly annoying is mind freeze. Obviously if your monking hexes such as migraine will screw you over but you should be far enough back that you dont get hexed anyway.

Overall i'd say that making a fuss over such minor things is pointless, but continue if you must :s

lutz · Jun 23, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Who really cares? It doesn't have to be directly copied from the wiki (most builds from the wiki are bad anyway), and really, there is no room for "creativity", unless you are good, in which case bringing Power Drain is awesome.

Shadow Slave · Jun 23, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If your bar is composed of 5 energy skills, you shouldn't really need the energy management skills..

Arguably.

It isn't always that straight forward - the size of the party, whether you are the sole monk, the area you are monking...these things can all play a part.

We are talking about Pugs right?

Sleeper Service · Jun 23, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

no, since if im puging its by choice and they can gtfo out my party if they dont like it.

edit : and people LIKE being in my team.

Hugh Manatee · Jun 23, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Air of superiority+Divine Spirit or selfless spirit is like god mode for a monk.

Lest121 · Jun 23, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Arguably.

It isn't always that straight forward - the size of the party, whether you are the sole monk, the area you are monking...these things can all play a part.

We are talking about Pugs right?

With dumb Ursan pugs you need proper energy management, most of them stand in AoE damage, I had one group that kept on rush, rush, rush, I ran out of Energy(so did the other monk) then dumb pug called the Monks garbage because he died, this is in the burning Forest after after keeping his ass alive after a 2 boss groups, it's amazing what how stupid people become when they have Rampage

Koudelka · Jun 23, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

It's funny how unobservant ursans are. I usually pop into a group with my M/R Healer's Covenant build, and they don't even think twice about asking me to ping my build. In general, people that ask others to ping are insecure.

Proff · Jun 23, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I pug when I don't feel like running h/h so if your bar is half decent for the area and you seem competent idc.